first up, harry reid. then john boehner. in the afternoon, mitch mcconnell and then nancy pelosi. we're expecting to hear from speaker boehner within the half hour following his meeting. we'll bring that to you. his remarks, though, coming on the heels of a politico report that the framework of a deal is beginning to emerge. the speaker and the president as its principal architects. both men expressing determination and cautious optimism yesterday. >> it's too important for washington to screw this up. now is the time for us to work on what we all agreed to, which is let's keep middle class taxes lower. >> time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spending problem that our country has. but i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to overt this crisis. >> politico also reporting that

the two men had a phone call yesterday that was, quote, curt. can these two men with a history of butting heads meet in the middle before america goes over the edge? >> we have a very, very reasonable chance of going over this cliff. every hour is ticking by, every day is ticking by. >> i think when this gets played out at the end, they'll get right up to cliff on new year's eve, we'll all be hugging cliff and giving cliff a kiss on the cheek. >> from the capitol to the white house, get who is coming to lunch. mr. romney goes to washington. he'll dine today at 1600 pennsylvania avenue at the invitation of the president himself. the question, is there a grander purpose behind their lunch date. >> is governor romney here tomorrow in some kind of cabinet level position, an audition for that position? >> no. >> so joining me now from the white house is kristen welker. so romney's people, however,

they're not backing off controversial suggestions about how the president won re-election. romney chief strategist sue teachs explains romney lost essentially by suggesting that the president was black and that poor people voted overwhelmingly for him, not exactly a positive tone ahead of this luncheon. we all know that there ain't no free lunch. so what is this all about? >> well, remember it also comes on the heels of mitt romney making those gift comments, essentially suggesting president obama won re-election because he gave his core constituents gifts. so not necessarily a positive tone to start the meeting. but this is really about striking a tone of bipartisanship after a bitterly divisive campaign. you remember president obama during his victory speech said he wanted to hit down, talk to romney about the economy, his views on the economy specifically right how giving the looming fiscal cliff. so i suggest -- or i imagine

they will discuss that, as well. but do we expect anything larger to come out of this? the white house is managing expectations saying there is really no agenda for this luncheon. it's really to bury the hatchet and to allow the country to move on, as well. >> right now, though, we do know treasury secretary tim geithner as we were telling everyone was on the hill, these marathon meetings with congressional leaders. what more do we know about those meetings? obviously starting off with some of the harder ones at first bhak through nancy pelosi as his last. >> we know the treasury secretary will be heading to the hill with rob nabors. he will be meeting with all of these congressional leaders separately. starting off -- or including house speaker john boehner. of course boehner will be key to moving the needle on these fiscal cliff negotiations. this comes on the heels of a phone call between president obama and speaker boehner which occurred credit. my sources are telling me the

phone call lasted for about a half an hour. politico described it as curt, but may sources say that's not necessarily the case. so of course treasury secretary tim geithner coming in to the hill trying to move the needle on the fiscal cliff and we're hearing that there are sort of broad outlines of a framework emerging. but of course they really need to put some meat on the bones. what does that mean in terms of increasing taxes and cutting medicare. to those are some of the issues being hammered out today. >> kristen, thank you so much. so as we said, it is tim geithner's day on the hill. is this a sign that talks are being accelerating or hitting stumbling blocks? joining me now senator kent conrad. sir, great to have you here. we showed the headline at the top of the show, from politico, the fiscal framework emerging. are the contours of the deal really taking shape?

you heard kristen welker saying the description of that phone conversation may not have been so curt as originally quoted. >> truth is, i don't know. because i've not been involved in those direct discussions. what i did know is in talking to colleagues, democrats and republicans, there is a growing sense that this has to be done, needs to be done in the national interests and that it will get done. so i'm encouraged by what i'm hearing in terms of the tone of comments from my colleagueses. >> so you talk about the tone of colleagues from the left, but also on the right, tom cole took heat from john boehner and others in the gop for urging his party to go along with the president's tax plan. take a listen. >> i told tom earlier in our conference meeting that i disagreed with him. >> i think this is a minority position within the party. >> i think this is a false choice. >> i believe the majority of the conference disagrees with it, but we shouldn't be talking about raising taxes right now. we should be talking about whether we're going to cut

spending. >> on the daily rundown, cole said he never meant for the remarks to go public. >> now that advice was given in private, but you guys have a way of figuring out what is said in private. and somebody leaked it out. that's fine. >> you didn't intend for this to go public? >> no. >> so, sir, when you hear statements like that, when at first you think that there are signals that there will be compromise moving forward, but then we see people like grover nor norquist, and i know there is no love lost, but he's saying people on the right are having impure thoughts about potentially raising taxes, do you frng that grover norquist, his anti-tax pledge, is seeping back into the conversation here and keeping the right with the cement shoes on? >> sure, for some that's the case. and it is also the case that some on our left have their shoes in concrete, as well.

they don't want to touch any spending. but the hard reality is we have to do both and every bipartisan group that's worked on this has reached that conclusion. so at the end of the day, i think people who are in the sensible center know you're going to have to come bodo both. revenue near a 60 year low as a share of our national income. spending is near a 60 year high as a share of our national income. so we're going to have to work both sides of the krequation. >> senators on the right have been very controversial in their remarks regarding susan rice and whether or not she will be nominated for secretary of state. but i want to play for everybody how the president defended rice yesterday. >> mrs. rice is extra ordinary. couldn't be prouder of the job that she's done. >> the applause led by hillary

clinton. what's your estimation about if she were to be nominated, are these some really choppy waters ahead based on what we've heard from senator collins, ayotte, graham, mccain and the like? >> undoubtedly yes, but i think it's totally unfair -- let me be very clear. i'm on the intelligence committee. what ambassador rice did is precisely what she should have done. she used the approved talking points from the intelligence community that were unclassified. she did not use classified information and that's precisely what she should do. she shouldn't use classified information. she is required in her position to use unclassified information. and that's precisely what she did. information provided to her unanimously by the intelligence community. to go after susan rice is

totally and completely unfair. and those who are doing it repeatedly ought to back off. that is not where fault lies. >> senator conrad, great to have you with me. here to talk over some of the issues, ed schultz. ed, great to have you here. a lot to get into this morning as we talk about the fiscal cliff. erskine bowles says he thinks democrats and republicans are serious about getting a deal done, but when you hear congressman cole walking back statements, do you think that's true? >> cole doesn't want to be a political target of the right. so he can easily say i really didn't mean that prks and to ge of the news. and probably trying to set the table for other guys. which is a signal that the right wing is still very stuck in con kreetd as you said earlier. they don't want to move. they are denying election

results. but there is real ominous things i think that are starting to surface here. any talk of a mortgage deduction change would be horrendous in my opinion and it would fly in the face of everything barack obama and joe biden ran on in protecting middle class. they have to be crystal clear that that is off the table. the housing crisis started the last recession. if they go after mortgage deductions, if they put that on the table even for high end homes, that will change sales, it will reduce prices on homes, it will slow construction, it could set the table for some tough economic times. i think the democrats have to draw a line in the sand and say there is not going to be anything done with the housing market right now, that those deductions will stay there for middle class families and be very clear about that. >> and that's why this deal is so important because these are big things that have ripple effects that are very tenuous in our current economic situation. the president yesterday attempting to get the public involved by encouraging social media, hash tags on twitter with

my 2 k, basically this act of every day americans to get in touch with their lawmakers about trying to get them to move on this, and as you say, the president basically does have a mandate from the people, he ran on this, people know that taxes were on the table. the right knows that revenue is on the table. the president really has all the leverage. >> he has tremendous leverage. i don't remember a president being this such a good negotiating position. but the fact the president is utilizing the social media underscores he knows he has a mandate. the social media is now a major player in the way we do politics in this country. so i think it was a brilliant move by the president. he's going to circumvent the media going right to the people, going on the road that's what needs to do, keep the conversational live. engage the people. my 2 k was hot yesterday, it will be hot all week long. >> the controversy surrounding susan rice. take a listen to this, this was a comment by bob corker.

>> i would just ask the president to step back from for a moment and realize that all of us here hold the secretary of state to a very different standard than most cabinet members. there's a handful of people that the president surrounds himself with that all of us hold to a very different level and the secretary of state no doubt is one of those. >> seems really interesting the comments on the right, that if they are so interested in the secretary of state, why aren't more questions being framed to hillary clinton right now in. >> first of all that comments is an admission of guilt that they are after her and they do not want her to be secretary of state. who is talking about secretary of state? this is a bunch of receipts or rick and conjecture. the president hasn't put susan rice up for secretary of state. that's not the issue. the issue is what senator conrad talked about and i think americans should take their lead from senator conrad who is an honest broker about as best as

you'll find in washington on the intelligence committee, confirming that she used the right talking points that were confirmed by the intelligence committee. for cork er to insinuate that she's already guilty is an admission of guilt on their part that they really do want her out of the picture. >> ed schultz, thank you so much. and you can catch ed tonight at 8:00. he'll be talking to stephanie cutter for her first prime time interview since the election. what a get for ed. this is great. >> she knows what's going on inside these negotiations and it's fluid. like the news changes every ten minutes. >> it will be fantastic. ed, thanks for your time. so despite our 30 person lottery pool, our teams were not one of the lucky two power ball jock p cra jackpot winners. officially tearing up our tickets. we're all not winners. there are winners, though. two different states to tell you

about. are you one of them? check your tickets, people. 5, 16, 22, 23, 29 and 6 for the power ball. also, our big question today, frenemies meet for lunch. can president obama and mitt romney mend fences for the good of the country? [ emily jo ] derrell comes into starbucks with his wife, danielle, almost every weekend. derrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ shirley ] things are sometimes a little tight around the house. i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since derrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then just gave him a little bit of help finding his way. ♪ [ laughs ] [ applause ] i love you. i love you, too. now's a good time to think about your options.

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i think the ideas carry the day for us. and success that we had, it obviously wasn't enough to win the race, was based on the candidate mitt romney and on his ideas. >> that was romney campaign adviser talking about the

candidate's election loss and his comments coming on the same day that there will be mitt on the menu at the white house. that's right. mr. romney going to washington to have lump with tnch with thet and the press not invited. let's bring in our panel. gang, great to have you all here. perry, let's he's first talk about the dynamics of this lunch today. this race was so contentious, so drawn out, that at one point during the debates, the governor's son -- governor romney's son, said he wanted to take a swing at the president. so the lunch may be tradition, but it's also going to be a little bit awkward, right, for these two guys to be in the same room. >> let me make two points. i think it will be awkward. in 2008, john mccain and president obama had a similar lunch and you see how that took us. been perhaps the

sharpest critic of barack obama since then. so i don't see them as emerging as very close friends. the second point -- >> in modern times, mitt has not returned to washington for a job. so mitt romney went home whereas other presidential losers have gone back to d.c. to go back to work like a mccain. >> i agree, but it doesn't necessarily mean -- i'm not sure the lunch will help the relationship. it seems to have been worse after the election than before in some ways. the other thing is it would be useful for obama if mitt romney had any pull with actual rops. it's not clear to me if mitt romney endorsed the fiscal cliff deal whether that would make any difference with a sorry. republicans don't really care what mitt romney thinks at this point. so i'm not sure if he has any pull that will make a difference after this meeting even if he and barack obama do become

allies. >> do you have expectations? >> it may be a case of keep your trends close and your enemies closer. but at the end of the day, this was a tough race and these are two good men, good family men, great husbands and fathers and they may just want to mend the fences personally. but we also have to remember that mitt romney has a great record in the private sector. he did some things right in the race. he was a good fund-raiser, good debater and he also won among economy voters. so i would like to think the president will listen on mitt romney so some of his suggestions and include the private sector a bit more and engage in a good debate and take in some of these republican ideas of not just raising taxes, but also cutting spending. and i think if they do that, i think it will be a productive lunch. >> so we showed just part of the sound from stu stevens about the romney campaign as an adviser

saying he was a charismatic african-american president with a billion dollars and a media that on which felt morally conflicted about being critical. how easy is that to reply cat. so he seems to be making the election results who are about the president and the media than it was about the actual candidate that they had in mitt romney. >> there's been a consistent effort to minimize what took place in november. the election happened and it was, if not a mandate, it was definitely a statement by the american people that they were ready for a change, they were ready for more of what president obama was proposing. and not going back to the past of what mitt romney was proposing. so i don't think this idea that you can sort of whitewash what took place and take mitt romney out of the equation really worked. as far as his lunch today, this is a guy who had a beer summit with people he'd never met. i'm sure can he sit down with mitt romney and work things out. but where mitt romney goes in the future, it's depending on whether he's willing to be the

real mitt romney or the conservative that he was in the primary. that's something you can't tell because he's a different person sometimes in private. >> so stu stevens does d. address two things the romney campaign could have done differently. gli >> we should there done a better job reaching out to women voters.>> we should there done r job reaching out to women voters. we should have done a better job reaching out to hispanic voters. we should have done it earlier and in a more effective way. >> i want to ask you about the comment there directed toward american women. as a republican woman, what do you think the campaign could have done differently to attract the female vote? >> i think it wasn't so much what the romney campaign did or didn't do, but the obama campaign actually did an effective job of this war on women and that lures a lot of women away from our party.

but we could have possibly included more women in the fray for the republican party. but the good thing about this is what stu mentioned, we recognize the fact that we didn't do well amongst women and latinos and we'll learn from these mistakes and work on the ground game, on the data that we need in order to make things better for the midterm. so i think the good thing, stu's piece was great simply because the campaign has gotten beaten up so bad after this, but there are a few things that they did right. but the good thing is they recognized the mistakes that were made and going to learn from them and get things better for midterms and certainly in the next presidential. >> to be a fly on the wall for that lunch. our power panel, thank you. great to see all three of you. former vice president now secretary of state, why he could be a candidate for the position. plus, 'tis the season. a truly heart warming moment between a new york police officer and homeless man captures the hearts and minds of millions.

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the daily beast with a piece al gore to state? the article proposes six alternatives to susan rice. topping the list, al gore. saying gore is well-known and he can use the position to elevate his top issue, climate change. it prompts scott conroy to ask whether scott brown's senate departure prove brief. suggesting the former republican senator from mass could run in a special election or be an interim senator. that would happen if president obama selects john kerry for a cab threat post. and the front page of the post, million dollar twinkie. bonuses for execs as it goes in to liquidation. now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of quality time and personal attention.

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welcome back. we're keeping our eyes on

capitol hill for you. right now john boehner expected to hold his weekly briefing. fresh on the heels of his meeting with timothy geithner. and the first time wate're hearg from him since his conversation with the frommed on the fiscal cliff. and about s if the looming fisc cliff was not enough, another story on capitol hill. u.n. ambassador susan rice has been at the center of that storm. last night on hardball, one leading gop moderate suggesting ambassador rice should have never put herself in the position she's in. >> frankly, i think the u.n. ambassador along with the secretary of state should be above politics and that she should have just said, no, i'm not going to go on those shows.

it's the wrong issue and the wrong time. i've got to maintain my credibility. >> so speaking with me just moments ago, democratic senator kent conrad giving his stern message to those gop senators going after the u.n. ambassador. >> to go after susan rice is totally and completely unfair. and those who are doing it repeatedly ought to back off. that is not where fault lies. >> joining me now is former new mexico governor bill richardson. sir, great to have you with me. >> thank you. >> you were the american ambassador to the u.n. do you think that susan collins has a point when she says that ambassador rice should stay above politics or is it senators like collins or mccain or graham pulling rice into the political fray? >> my first view is the secretary of state, the u.n.

ambassador, traditionally don't get into domestic mopolitics. they don't attend fund-raiser or campaign. however, they do and should speak before news shows to disseminate information about foreign policy to the american people. so to say that she should stay off news shows which are sunday which are informative to the public, yes, there is politics there, is incorrect. the president needs the chief foreign policy spokesperson for his administration and that's the secretary of state and then secondarily it's the u.n. ambassador. so i partially agree with the senator, they should stay out of domestic politics, but not when an issue like this comes up that the american people deserve some kind of an explanation. >> is it fair that she's caught in the cross hairs about what the intelligence was at the time and what was able to be passed along, disseminated to the public within that many days after the attack in benghazi? >> i think there's too much

focus on the crosshairs. if the president is going to nominate ambassador rice, it should ob her qualifications. she has terrific qualifications. she's a road scholar, assistant secretary of africa when i was at the u.n. she was in her 30s at the time. she's been a distinguished ambassador of the u.n. she was the architect of the resolutions on sanctions on north korea, on libya. she's an outstanding diplomat, scholar. i think those should be the main questions that she's asked if the president decides to nominate her for secretary of state instead of a preemptive attack on some issues where she was simply reading and following an intelligence analyst's view of what had happened in benghazi. >> sir, if we look back over her time in service, the u.s.

embassies in tanzania responsibled. susan rice is certainly feeling heat over that role and security issues about those embassies. she was the assistant secretary of state for african-americans within the clintoned a hin strags at that time. so what is your response to those attacks of susan rice calling those incidents into question present day? >> well, assistant secretary of africa handles policy towards africa. policy towards kenya. towards south africa. sudan. an assistant secretary is not intimately involved with security. and in this case it was terrorist attack. yes, she's aware of some of the issues, but that's not her direct responsibility. she's worried about american policy. at the time we were dealing with a lot of issues in south africa in the c ochlco this.

congo, a number of piece keeping operations. i'm not saying she shouldn't be aware of security issues, but this is not a matter that a policy person directly has responsibility. so it's unfair to target her on those issues, also. >> always great to have you on. and make sure to tune into andrea mitchell reports today at 1:00 p.m. eastern. she'll speak with joe lieberman. again that's at 1:00. a developing story we need to pass along now. just getting information about former president george h.w. bush. a source close to the bush family has confirmed he is hospitalized in houston suffering from cronkikro bronch. he has had a severe cough and been in and out of the hospital for the last couple of weeks. he's in the hospital now as an abundance of caution. we'll keep you posted. today egyptian president

morsi will explain why he had assumed near absolute powers. this move sparked days of nationwide riots. and a government study is saying that the prison at guantanamo bay could close and u.s. prisons could safely hold the inmates. 166 people are being held accused of plotting terror attacks against the u.s. now, supporters say the move will save millions of dollars. troubled actress lindsay lohan spent the morning under arrest at a new york city police station. the nypd cuffed the 26-year-old after allegedly punching another woman at a new york city night club. no word yet on what prompted the alleged fight. a sign of the season here at nbc. did you catch it? the rockefeller center christmas tree all lit up after last night's 80th annual celebration. the true from new jersey. and a tourist in new york city snapped this sign of the holiday spirit in full gear and now through social media, it's gone viral.

an officer giving a pair of new socks and boots for a barefoot homeless person. the officer saying that the man's fit lit up at the sign of those boots. so in less than an hour from now, arizona officials will announce where the winning power ball ticket was sold in that state. just moments ago, we learned that missouri's winning ticket was sold in the city of dearborn. the two tickets will split the $587 million jackpot. the hunt is on for the winners. nbc's kerry sanders live on his way to the winning store in missouri. so how excited are people in missouri to know that it's been at least pinpointed to their state and that city of dearborn? >> everybody wants to know is it their neighbor. dearborn, missouri. never heard of it, but now you have. and for the next few hours, maybe the next few days, that will be the most famous place in

this state as we a wait to find out who that winner or the winners are. now, this is what the tickets look like here in the state. yesterday, nationwide, they were selling 130,000 of these power ball tickets an hour. 160 million sold just yesterday. this is mine. worth nothing as you now know. but that winner is somewhere out there with this incredible sum of money. the largest ever in this type of lottery. and it will be split two ways. but you're probably wondering, because you didn't win and you kind of want to know, who gets a cut of what. the government's actually reach out and take a portion of this and so the winners wiped out really with about 25% at the end of the day of the total take. here in missouri, the state will take about 4% in taxes. in arizona, about 5% this taxes. plus there's the federal taxes that are all involved. but really at the end of the

day, who is complaining. when you have so many millions of dollars as a winner, giving the government some of it is no big deal because there's no way one person or even a group people could ever spend this much money in a lifetime. >> kerry reporting from columbia. we'll let you get back on the record to dearborn. >> we'll go find the winner and see what he tells us he'll do with the money. >> maybe he can buy you lunch and replace the $2 that you just threw away. >> that was my lunch money yesterday. i'm hitting you up. >> i'll get you lunch no problem. thank you, sir. so i want you to look at this picture because you are now meeting the republican committee chair men. emphasis on men. made wliselissa harris perry so off on whether gop learned anything from the election. and now to john boehner. >> -- sending the economy over

the fiscal cliff. two weeks ago we had a very productive conversation at the white house. based on where we stand today, i would say two things. first, despite claims that the president supports a balanced approach, democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. and secondly, no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. campaign style rallies and one-sided leaks in the press are nolts the way to get things done here in washington. majority leader and i just had a meeting with the treasury secretary. it was frank and it was direct. i was hopeful we'd see a specific plan for cutting

spending. we sought to find out today what the president really is willing to do. i remain hopeful that productive conversations can be had in the days ahead. but the white house has to get serious. yesterday our leadership team met with erskine bowles and business leaders about averting the fiscal cliff and achieving the balanced approach the white house says it wants. and i've made clear that we put real concessions on the line by putting revenues on the table right up front. unfortunately, many democrats continue to rule out sensible spending cuts that must be part of any significant agreement that will reduce our deficit. and mr. bowles himself said there has been no serious discussion of spending cuts so far. and unless there is, there is a real danger of going off the fiscal cliff. going off the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy, it will cost

american jobs. republicans have taken action to overt the fiscal cliff by passing legislation to stop all the tax hikes. to replace the sequester. and pave way for -- pave the way for tax reform and entitlement reform. and we're the only ones with a balanced plan to protect the economy, protect american jobs and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. but without spending cuts and entitlement reform, it will be impossible to address the debt crisis and get our economy going again and create jobs. so right now all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. time for the president, congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. with that i'll take a few questions. >> doctor would you not tell democrats what specific spending cuts you would like to see?

>> it's been clear over the last year and a half i've talked to the president about many of them. you can look at our budget where we drought line very specific proposals that we passed in last year's budget and the budget in the year before. we know what the menu is. what we don't know is what the white house is willing to do to get serious about solving our debt crisis. >> so your 2011 position still stands then? are you still offering those talks from 2011, is that still a debate is this? i'm not going to get in to the details. it's very clear what kind of spending cuts need to occur but we have no idea what the white house is willing to do. >> to this point, most public statements have been optimistic, confident, hopeful. we're all sensing a very different tone from you right now. are you walking away from talks, have things completely broken down?

>> no, no. stop. i got to tell you, i'm disappointed in where we are and disappointed in what's happened over the last couple of weeks. but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> is this assessment of yours based on the meeting with secretary geithner or your phone call with president obama last night and you can tell us something about that knophone c? >> we had very nice conversation last night. it was direct and straightforward. but this assessment i give you today would be a product of both of those conversations. >> how much would you be open to the idea of discretionary spending cuts as part of a down payment to give to a longer range solution on entitlements and tax reform? >> there are a lot of options on

the table, including that one. >> mr. speaker, before the election, you were asked whether if obama won taxes would have to go up. and you've made it sound like you would oppose that. now you're acknowledging that they will. >> the day after the election, i came here and made it clear that republicans would put revenue on the table as a way to begin to move the process to get this resolved. >> so my question is, what message do you have for people who look at the negotiating position and see that it's -- or believe that it's inevitable that you'll have to accept some compromise on tax rates? >> revenue is on the table, but revenue is only on the table if there were serious spending cuts as part of this agreement. it has to be part of the agreement. we have a debt crisis. we're spending too much. and while we're willing to put revenue on the table, we have to recognize it's the spending that's out of control.

>> mr. speak, roughly what size spending cuts do you think it would take to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff and do you think that at least the promise of spending cuts has to be included in this level of deal at this time? >> i don't think it's productive for either side to what i out hard lines in terms of what the size of the spending cuts ought to be. there are a lot of options on how you can get there. but the second part of your question was -- >> my question is do you think the promise of spending cuts has to be included in the deal that overts a fiscal cliff. >> there is a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for

entitlement reform next year and tax reform next year. but this is way out of balance. and not recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious business or extending the lower tax rates and not the upper ones, which one would you choose? >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse, though, for the economy? >> -- the balance that you talked about, could you include the debt limit increase in the overall package? >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there are a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. and if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, then

there's going to be shall price tag associated with it. >> last question. >> are you standing by your dollar for dollar for cuts? >> i tip to believe any increase in the debt limit has to be accompanied by spending reductions that meet or exceed it. >> thank you. all right. listening to speaker john boehner there after his meeting with tim geithner. coming out -- didn't hear it right off the top, but basically saying the president's actions haven't met with his words in it regard to the negotiations that are going back and forth as we count down to the fiscal cliff here. joining me now from new orleans is melissa harris perry. you got to hear all that. so first off, he regarded the conversation that he had with the president last night as a very nice conversation, direct and straightforward. it's been reported throughout the morning that it was more of a curt conversation. but it seems as if with the

president going into this discussion, he holds all the cards and all the lemverage, bu it doesn't seem john boehner is willing to meet in the middle here. he said i'm not going to get into the details. why not tell us the details what have they want? >> i think because of what you just said. because as a matter of politics in fact hold the cards here. it's more than just sort that he has the ability to go over the fiscal cliff, allow sort of the 113th congress to convene. that congress will certainly continue to have a republican majority but also a greater influence of the democratic party, and a lesser influence of the tea party coalition within the republican party, and once that 113th convenes the president can institute obama tax cuts, and sort of dare the republican party not to vote for, you know, a new round of obama tax cuts. politically the president holds those but it's more important

than that. the american people, after looking at options presented to them reclearly with a return of president obama to the white house, or initiating mitt romney presidency, chose a return of president obama to the white house and therefore gave him a very clear mandate to hold the line on the question of entitlements there when it comes to talking about entitlements, or earned benefits as progressives like to refer to it, what is the way that the president and those on the left can look and also appear to the right to be willing to compromise? what can they put on the table, if anything? >> well, i just don't think that any of us think that it is a reasonable idea to over the course of the next week and a half, over the course of the holiday season, for the president and this congress, which is a lame duck congress, to engage in major entitlement reforms of programs that have helped to lift millions of americans out of poverty and that have been the basis of our safety net for the past 30

years. that's an unreasonable way to make policy in this country. i think what the president can do is talk about differences in terms of where he's willing to set that bar for what constitutes wealthy americans, what kinds of hoop holes he's willing to chose. it's is ainissue of revenue. this is fundamentally an issue about our revenues being far below where they have historically been and where they need to be. >> msnbc's only melissa h harris-per harris-perry, great to see you. want her show on weekends. thank you. i got to be in nerd land last weekend and i'm telling you, it's a great place to be. thanks for having me on last weekend. appreciate it. back with much more after this. , you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit,

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